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Isabel Celis (Found Deceased) 6 yr old, Tucson, AZ


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  #41  
Old 04-05-2017, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lune3 View Post
I don't think it was a stranger either. The whole property was walled. Kind of risky. There was a gated entrance as well iirc. I do remember a gate in the wall along the back lane as well....don't know if that was ever locked or not.

Didn't the neighbour hear someone ...voices of two men I think near Isabel's window? She woke up in the middle of the night, or wee hours to hear that, and went back to sleep?
Yes, there was something about hearing voices, but I can't remember the details. I need to go back and read from the beginning, sometimes the details of these poor missing children, get mixed up in my head....sad that there are so many are missing.....
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  #42  
Old 04-05-2017, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
Does anyone here think her father killed her?
Greetings'

I think the cousin or the other family member that was discussed awhile back. I think it might have been the uncle or something. I just remember the cousin drove a jeep and the uncle a pickup.

I don't think Isa's father killed her. (IMO)
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  #43  
Old 04-05-2017, 06:20 PM
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The neighbor being interviewed by Nancy Grace is at this link.


She says a couple of times about the Celis dogs were outside barking. The Celis family said two dogs were inside in cages (they had complaints about the dogs) with one old blind & deaf dog outside that morning. It's in an interview with Katie Couric.

TPD has commented on many of the Celis interviews and the interview with the PI. They say that the family and PI doesn't have the information that they have to be pointing the finger at the cousin/uncle.

http://www.kvoa.com/story/35061334/p...ds-in-the-case
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
Does anyone here think her father killed her?
I never did.
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  #45  
Old 04-05-2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
Does anyone here think her father killed her?
With very little facts, you just can't discount how TPD has responded to the family. New Chief though and waiting to see what is said now. You can't discount the cousin at all with no info, but the Find Me Private detectives group are psychics with the owner being a psychic detective supposedly. jmo
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  #46  
Old 04-09-2017, 01:10 AM
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The news keeps posting about Moore Security having video of Isabels bedroom window. There is a solid house in the way for that. The side roads & businesses yes. Not her window. Maybe their garage but still there's a two story solid house between them. Nancy Grace even spelled out M O O R E when interviewing the owner. Free advertisement, no money exchanged. Pictures maybe. Here's the interview.


here's a google map of the area. Moore security moved so they were in the strip mall where the Specialist store, Men's Warehouse etc...are located.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/5602...d32.221126!3e0

Next, the video of 5 people walking late at night in the area caught on security cameras was blasted all over the news, but in the end, the time stamp on the security camera it came from was incorrect, not time set. It was the church's video. The people were not involved in any way. It's not the cousin as I've seen mentioned elsewhere.

http://tucson.com/news/local/surveil...1ea99a0b3.html

Not the cousin in regards to the video of 5 people walking video. Wrong day/night.

Last edited by Hunter; 04-09-2017 at 02:43 AM.
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  #47  
Old 04-10-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Oceanblueeyes View Post
From what I have read her remains were found about 6 miles away from where Isa lived. So you are right, she wasn't found close to her home but miles away in a remote desert area.

IMO
In the overall scheme of things, six miles isn't very far. It would take less than 10 minutes to get there. To me it indicates she was already dead when transported. Perps don't like to go any long distance with a dead body in their car, in case they are stopped.
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  #48  
Old 04-10-2017, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
I'm really surprised there isn't more discussion about this considering how big the story was back in the day.

Maybe most people are sure that the cousin/nephew, I forget, who he was is the perp...?

I hope this beautiful girl gets the justice she deserves.
I think more will come to respond. I just found out today and came straight here. I saw it on a list of articles / video on CNN, under a political story. I think a lot of people don't know yet.

Poor Isabel deserves to live her life. I want Justice to be done for her, soon. RIP, sweet Angel.
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  #49  
Old 04-10-2017, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
Does anyone here think her father killed her?
I did think it at the time . . . Or maybe the cousin. Now, I think, if the remains were found from a tip, then the perp must have told someone. Maybe a friend, lover, spouse, or priest (maybe), and that person has decided to tell LE. Of course, that's all speculation, but I don't think hèr father would have ever told a soul, if he did it. Also, there was some talk about her baseball team coach at the time, IIRC.
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  #50  
Old 04-10-2017, 07:28 PM
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Another thing I keep seeing stated elsewhere is that the Celis family PI Snyder of Find Me, in Chandler, AZ, is retired FBI. He's a retired Customs agent. Big difference. He claims he has psychic abilities and his group is mostly psychics. They do dousing & swing pendulums for answers. Many people came up with the cousin being a suspicious person long before Snyder did.

Both the cousin and the father are suspicious.

If someone came down the alley behind Isabel's house, hopped the back fence where they did find a shoe print I believe on a utility meter box, they could avoid many of those cameras. Going back down that alley with headlights out on a vehicle would also avoid being noticed. One home on their street does have a larger cleared area in the back of the house where the alley is. A vehicle could park off to the side there and not be seen. They could have taken her down that alley to S. Van Buren & through the neighborhood avoiding all the business security cameras on Broadway & Craycroft. js

https://www.google.com/maps/place/56...4d-110.8728542
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  #51  
Old 04-10-2017, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleos_mum View Post
In the overall scheme of things, six miles isn't very far. It would take less than 10 minutes to get there. To me it indicates she was already dead when transported. Perps don't like to go any long distance with a dead body in their car, in case they are stopped.
I don't know where the six miles thing is coming from. They never said that. LE is being very tight-lipped about it and wouldn't have said that. Besides, there is nothing remote within 6 miles of their house...they live right smack in the middle of town.

And I wish the news reporters would quit saying "rural" instead of "remote". Remote is what the police chief said and is very different than rural. Remote goes along with the chief saying it wasn't happenstance that she was found...meaning it was BFE somewhere. They got a tip from someone. I feel like they have a good idea who it was but aren't going to bring a case until it's solid and I think they need more info.
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  #52  
Old 04-13-2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by desertbunnee View Post
I don't know where the six miles thing is coming from. They never said that. LE is being very tight-lipped about it and wouldn't have said that. Besides, there is nothing remote within 6 miles of their house...they live right smack in the middle of town.

And I wish the news reporters would quit saying "rural" instead of "remote". Remote is what the police chief said and is very different than rural. Remote goes along with the chief saying it wasn't happenstance that she was found...meaning it was BFE somewhere. They got a tip from someone. I feel like they have a good idea who it was but aren't going to bring a case until it's solid and I think they need more info.
Upthread someone speculated six miles and someone else said six miles was too far away from home for a family member to have done it. I was replying to those presumptions.
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  #53  
Old 04-17-2017, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Oceanblueeyes View Post
From what I have read her remains were found about 6 miles away from where Isa lived. So you are right, she wasn't found close to her home but miles away in a remote desert area.

IMO
Where did you read she was found 6 miles from her home? Pima County had two sets of remains found from Feb. 1st to March 1st, iirc, per local news & google searches. One in Vail, AZ on the railroad tracks and one which is actually in Pinal Co., Red Rock, AZ. At least per MSM or LE, there hasn't been any other remains found. TIA
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  #54  
Old 04-17-2017, 12:11 AM
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I want to add, TPD doesn't want to release the location of where Isabels remains were found, last I heard.
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  #55  
Old 04-18-2017, 07:50 PM
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Too late now, the pyschic detective outed the location in his new videos. Avra Valley AZ. That's 34 miles/46 minutes from the Celis house. Another young teen girl was found in 2014, a quarter mile from where Isabel's remains were found. Maribel Gonzales. He's really pointing at JM but JM wasn't in Tucson when Maribel went missing. I don't believe the two are connected.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/2...ound-in-desert

Link to PI's new videos. Part 1 & 2



google map

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/W+Av...32.2203783!3e0
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  #56  
Old 04-24-2017, 09:18 AM
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I have never believed either of Isa's parents were involved. I continue to believe that today. I believe they are devastated they have lost their beautiful youngest child to a monster who took her away from them.

It infuriates me how Isa's parents were treated by the TPD. It conjures up so many bad memories of other LE in past cases who had the same tunnel vision against other innocent parents furthering their trauma beyond having their precious child or children abducted from them right out of their home. The list is long and agonizing where it has been done because of immediate tunnel vision by LE and even the majority on social media as well.

LE never seems to learn one thing in child abduction cases even though vast studies have been done on child abduction/murder cases in order for LE to be more aware that in those circumstances the abductor/murderer statistics drastically change on who the likely perpetrator will most likely be.

In abduction/murder cases of children only 14% of the time does it ever involve a parent or parents. Those 14% are those who usually don't have custody or murders the child while it is their time to be with their child, and some will commit suicide or attempt to do so after murdering the child due to custodial motives.

That is not the case with Isa and her parents. They both lived inside of the home with their children, and were not fighting about custodial issues when she was abducted from her home. Both of the parents still remain together along with their surviving children.

In abducted/murdered children 44% of the time the perpetrator will be a stranger to the child. In 42% of the cases in the largest studies ever done in the US it will be a friend, neighbor or someone they knew and were not the child's parents.

LE did the very same thing to Mark, Archie, and Ruth Lunsford even though John Couey was the kidnapper/rapist/murderer.

LE was sure Ed Smart and his brother were involved in the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart. So much so they refused to put the composite sketch out of the perpetrator even though Elizabeth's younger sister was there and saw the abductor the night ES was taken and described the man for the artist.

It happened to Steve Greone and if Joe Duncan hadn't brought Shasta back to her hometown that police department would still be hounding him .........still believing it was done by someone they knew when Duncan was a total stranger to all of his victims.

I have seen the devastation and undue compounded trauma police with tunnel vision have caused totally innocent parents, and all the while the real suspect was out there the entire time.

It even happened in the OK case where the two young girls were found murdered in a ditch. So many were so sure Mr Placker, the grandfather who was raising one of the girls, was THE ONE, and that case lingered for years until the actual suspect killed his girlfriend to silence her because she knew he had been the one who had killed both girls.

I have very little faith in the TPD in solving this case. My best friend lives in Tuscon, and she said they rarely ever solve cases on their own, and only solve the cases if someone turns the suspect in to them, without the TPD doing the needed legwork/investigative work themselves to find the perp through good old fashion police work.

So the only chance that Isa has to obtain justice is whoever told the TPD where her remains were found actually is talking to them and has evidence to back up what happened. There again if it happens it will be solved not by the TPD but by someone coming forward to solve the case for the TPD. It wouldn't surprise me if the person who did it was the cousin/uncle. It makes no logical sense that any family member who supposedly loved Isa would leave the city just two weeks after she went missing and then lawyer up refusing to speak with his family members ever again.

Imo, his friend who gave him his alibi (that cant be verified) may be the one who gave them the location to Isa's remains. I think like so many other cases he gave him a false alibi. I hope he didn't do this through an anonymous tip line but came forward and spilled what he has held secret for so long. That is the only way Isa and her parents may get justice they all richly deserve to have.
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Last edited by Oceanblueeyes; 04-24-2017 at 09:29 AM.
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  #57  
Old 04-24-2017, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleos_mum View Post
In the overall scheme of things, six miles isn't very far. It would take less than 10 minutes to get there. To me it indicates she was already dead when transported. Perps don't like to go any long distance with a dead body in their car, in case they are stopped.
I did read earlier it was six miles but that information may have been in error and it could have been much further away since she was found in another county and not the county she lived in, iirc.

Most abducted children are murdered within very short hours of being taken.

I remember when the kidnapper, rapist/pedophile, and murderer of little 5 year old Samantha Runion... he discarded her body 7-8 miles from where he first kidnapped her.

I think Isa was alive when taken, but was raped, IMO, and killed within 1.5 to 3 hours after being abducted. Abductors of children do tend to murder their victims quickly, and also quickly discard their bodies.

Nice to 'see' you by the way, Cleo.
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  #58  
Old 04-24-2017, 09:33 PM
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This large case study involves 775 solved cases where the abducted child victim/s was later found murdered.

The first link is when the TPD first confirmed Isa had been abducted. That is the keyword (abducted) for those circumstances changes the statistics and studies drastically as to who the suspect will most likely turnout to be.

And what infuriates me the most is this vast study which was based upon factual evidence, and funded by the DOJ ....was done in order to ASSIST/EDUCATE LE in child abduction cases. Yet most of them continue to ignore the studies which are factualy based. They waste valuable time and put undue trauma on already traumatized parents because of continuous tunnel vision. This vast study of 775 abducted/murdered children was done in order to make LE much more knowledgeable in case they were to ever have to investigate an abducted child case in their own jurisdiction.

TUCSON, Ariz. -- Police say a missing Tucson girl was, in fact, abducted from her home last month.
http://www.azfamily.com/story/283485...s-was-abducted

This is the case study that involved 775 abducted, and murdered children.

With more killers identified, researchers found threat that the killer will be a friend or acquaintance is nearly equal to that of a stranger.

The probability that the killer’s name will come up during the first week of the
investigation has decreased.

The use of pornography by killers as a trigger to murder has increased.


Key findings:

In 74 percent of the missing children homicide cases studied, the child murder victim was female, and the average age was 11 years old.

In 44 percent of the cases studied, the victims and killers were strangers, but in 42 percent of the cases, the victims, and killers were friends or acquaintances.

Only about 14 percent of all of the cases studied involved parents or intimates killing the child.

Almost two-thirds of the killers in these cases have prior arrests for violent crimes, with slightly more than half of those prior crimes committed against children.

The primary motive for the child abduction killer in the cases studied was sexual assault.

In nearly 60 percent of the cases studied, more than two hours passed between the time someone realized the child was missing and the time police were notified.

In 76 percent of the missing children homicide cases studied, the child was dead within three hours of the abduction–and in 88.5 percent of the child was dead within 24 hours.


http://www.atg.wa.gov/child-abduction-murder-research

*The actual study, page by page, can be found on the last site I have linked. Iirc its a 118 detailed report on the study.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:59 AM
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Thank you Oceanblueeyes!
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Old 04-25-2017, 02:04 PM
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Thanks OBE!
My belief is, more often than not it is, a relative, friend of the family or a family member involved in a child abduction/rape/murder.
I also believe most of these abducted children last way less than the 3 hours stated.
Last but not least, those arrested for such crimes have usually molested for years and have never/seldom been charged with that type crime.
What can be done to curb/stop the madness?
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